|
|
Yes i would. If Christians preached to "Kill the Infidels" and then they were responsible for 9/11 i would say no church...I also wouldn't alow them to name the place after a mosque that they built when they started conquering a country and i wouldn't let them to open it on 9/11/11 Muslims don't preach kill the infidels and they weren't responsible for 9/11. You're adding other things to what I said. I said if people CLAIMING to be Christians did this (just as people claiming to be Muslims did it), would you still say they couldn't build a church. Answer this. Also, I want to hear your justification about the human argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I would like someone to prove to me that it wasn't Muslims? The fact is almost every Muslim outside of America hates us. They were muslims that is a fact. Also their book does say to kill the infidels. You seriously have no idea of the outside world, do you? The only Muslims that hate us are the ones who have either been brainwashed (see: Al Qaeda, Iran) or the ones who have been wronged by us (see: some of Iraq and Afghanistan). And, for fuck's sake, let's go back to my first post in this thread: RELIGIOUS FUCKING FREEDOM. They have every right to build there. You are holding more than a billion people responsible for an act committed by 50. Come on now. With the Iraq War, is the entire nation responsible for America being there? No. Only a select few asshats. Let me break this down into a logical statement. Your entire argument is based on this: If some Muslims, then all Muslims. Some Muslims committed 9/11 Therefore all Muslims committed 9/11 That simplifies into: If some A, then all A Some A then B Therefore all A then B Ignore the improper structure there. Didn't feel like figuring out the best way to say it. Now, let's replace A with White People and B with Owned Slaves. If some white people, then all white people. Some white people owned slaves. Therefore all white people owned slaves. You know for a fact that this isn't true. Your entire argument is logically flawed. (yes, that is your Logic 101 lesson of the day)
|
|
|
|
|
I would like someone to prove to me that it wasn't Muslims? The fact is almost every Muslim outside of America hates us. They were muslims that is a fact. Also their book does say to kill the infidels. You seriously have no idea of the outside world, do you? The only Muslims that hate us are the ones who have either been brainwashed (see: Al Qaeda, Iran) or the ones who have been wronged by us (see: some of Iraq and Afghanistan). And, for fuck's sake, let's go back to my first post in this thread: RELIGIOUS FUCKING FREEDOM. They have every right to build there. You are holding more than a billion people responsible for an act committed by 50. Come on now. With the Iraq War, is the entire nation responsible for America being there? No. Only a select few asshats. Let me break this down into a logical statement. Your entire argument is based on this: If some Muslims, then all Muslims. Some Muslims committed 9/11 Therefore all Muslims committed 9/11 That simplifies into: If some A, then all A Some A then B Therefore all A then B Ignore the improper structure there. Didn't feel like figuring out the best way to say it. Now, let's replace A with White People and B with Owned Slaves. If some white people, then all white people. Some white people owned slaves. Therefore all white people owned slaves. You know for a fact that this isn't true. Your entire argument is logically flawed. (yes, that is your Logic 101 lesson of the day) I didn't say that all muslims are at fault. I think that muslims should be aloud to live in freedom just like the rest of us but i can't be sure that the people who did 9/11 aren't the people building the mosque. Who is paying for the Mosque?: The person who came up with the money will not say were he got it. Also there have been links to him and extremists. Why are they building there?: Is there not any other open ground for them to build on? Why open on 9/11: What do they want us to think? If those questions can be answered with truth and you can prove that they are not trying to shove it up ours than i will accept that they are perfectly rite in building this mosque. Before you jump to conclusions i say that they have every rite given to them by the constitution to build the mosque there. But just because they have the rite doesn't mean that it is the rite thing to do.
|
Building Your Proboard, a Basic Guide to Getting Your Forum Started
Need somewhere to host files?[/url]
|
|
|
|
|
Thankfully, the government and even the people have an arbitrary and unbiased set of rules to decide if someone is allowed to do something and these people are completely within their right (not "rite") to build this here and we are not allowed to stop them because it's not "the thing to do."
And, honestly, back to the one thing you didn't address... this mosque is in New York City on the same island as the WTC. Other than that, I do not see how it is related to the WTC at all. It's 3 freaking streets away.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010 17:18:19 GMT by Josh
|
|
|
|
|
|
First of all you didn't answer my legit questions...
It is three buildings away...dude once the thing is build you will be able to see the mosque from ground zero...
also it is Muslim tradition to build a mosque on conquered ground...
|
Building Your Proboard, a Basic Guide to Getting Your Forum Started
Need somewhere to host files?[/url]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Is it really a tradition? I keep on hearing this, but I have yet to see any legitimate source that backs this up. I've looked.
Why are they building there? It's one of the busiest areas in the world, surely there are plenty of Muslims there. Additionally, there were probably more innocent Muslims that died from the terrorist attacks than terrorists.
Who's funding it? Who cares? Also, you have to figure, with this kind of response being generated, they're probably glad that they asked to be anonymous donors (as many donors do for many different causes). If they hadn't, who knows how many bigots would have vandalized their homes if any live in America. Chances are though, most of the money is coming from Saudi Arabia.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Eh, I don't really support it. It's obvious quite a few Americans are still sore over what happened on 9/11, so trying to build a mosque anywhere near Ground Zero is basically a douchebag move.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Muslims can be American too. This whole us vs. them mentality is so annoying. They have every right to build a mosque there. It's a place of worship and spirituality, not a terrorist training facility.
There are Muslim Americans. They have every right that other Americans have. They too wept on 9/11 for the nation and for the loved ones they lost. And while the rest of the nation became prejudiced against them despite them having felt loss as well, they turned the other cheek and took our racism. And still! Still we spit in their face. It's just disgusting by now.
|
|
|
|
|
They turned the other cheek by wanting to build a mosque near Ground Zero, the site of 9/11 (when they apparently wept)? Yeah, seems a bit odd to me. I may be biased, but you are too. I'll be the first to admit that I'm pretty messed up, but even I think this is a bit wrong (and totally awkward). It isn't RIGHT NEXT DOOR to Ground Zero, but it's close enough that the people behind it should have thought, "Hey, maybe this isn't such a good idea?" Oh, and FYI: This isn't a debate on whether it's legally right or wrong. Morally, it's wrong. They may be Americans, but this is happening in America. We have no official religion. We do, however, have Twin Towers -- or rather, we did. If building a mosque near Ground Zero causes emotional harm to a lot of Americans, something's wrong with doing it.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010 19:35:01 GMT by 3:
|
|
|
|
|
How much complaining have you heard from Muslims despite the racism they've been presented with, despite the profiling? For several years after 9/11, I know that people would say "We should just kill all Muslims and Arabs" or "We should just nuke the Middle East." It wasn't uncommon. I heard it all the time from tons of people. They did not respond to these immature and bigoted statements. I'd say that's turning the other cheek, wouldn't you? How is building a mosque offensive? How is that an act that says fighting back instead of turning the other cheek? Again, it is a place of worship. Josh already explained the logical fallacy of using the part for the whole. So why shouldn't innocent, non-extremist Muslims be allowed to build a temple there? Because of a few people who committed a terrible sin, the rest who are in any way related have to be punished? Muslims died at ground zero too. I get where you're coming from if you say this is a sensitive subject for people, but my point is that there is nothing to be sensitive about here. And yes, I am biased. Though I like to think that my bias is that I hate prejudice and bigotry. Edit: Clearly it's legally allowed. However, I don't think it is emotionally harmful. The only emotions that are common from this are anger and outrage, not sadness. The reason anger and outrage is being generated? Racism. Plain and simple. When 9/11 happened, a lot of people took their grief and anger and blamed it on the entirety of Islam. They are in the wrong for that, not the Muslims.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010 19:46:14 GMT by Eric
|
|
|
|
|
No, but the Muslims know what's been going on these past several years and no doubt knew what was going to happen when they brought these plans to the table. Someone has to know when to give. Clearly, the "Americans" aren't going to give up their "war" anytime soon, and the Muslims seem to have decided that turning the other cheek wasn't imaginative enough. It's New York. The mosque can be built anywhere. It does not need to be near Ground Zero. If building it is going to worsen the tension between "Americans" and Americans, why do it? It really doesn't seem like they're innocent, peace-loving, Muhammad-fearing people trying to build a place of worship. Again, it seems like they're trying to build it because they can. Why else would location matter to them? I know that if I were a peaceful Christian, I'd walk x amount of blocks to get to where I needed to be instead of waging a turf war.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010 20:04:09 GMT by 3:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, but doing the civil rights marches also caused tension, it also made people angry and outraged. Now it's considered one of the most noble and outstanding events in American history. If what they are doing does not directly harm anyone else, they have a right to stand for what they believe in, both legally and morally.
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, but doing the civil rights marches also caused tension, it also made people angry and outraged. Now it's considered one of the most noble and outstanding events in American history. If what they are doing does not directly harm anyone else, they have a right to stand for what they believe in, both legally and morally. That's the thing though. It doesn't physically harm people, but it does cause emotional stress. I can only imagine what the next couple of years are going to be like if that mosque gets built. You're going to have attacks on the mosque, threats towards the people going there, and all sorts of things -- and what's worse is that the people who built the mosque likely know all that might have happen. So who is to blame? The 8-year-old waving a piece of candy if front of his brother, or the brother for punching him in the face and taking it? That doesn't exactly justify anything, but one one side, you've got the so-called peaceful Muslims, and on the other, you've got people who've suffered quite a bit at the hands of not-so-peaceful Muslims. Which side do you think should have known better? I don't know about you, but if a bank stored all its cash in public view, I would arrest the manager. That's just asking for trouble that might endanger innocent people. Just something to think about. @civil rights, means < end. This? Not so much. Racism is always going to exist. This is just throwing gas on the never ending fire.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010 20:14:14 GMT by 3:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, but draw it back to the civil rights march like I said. Did the blacks know it was probably going to cause riots? Hell yes. Did they know that it was going to make people angry? Definitely. Was there anything wrong with what they did in today's eyes? No. Why is time the only difference? Because our understanding is better and we realize that the bigotry that the large majority of the nation had then was wrong.
Sometimes people need to have something put in their face in order for them to get over their racism.
|
|
|
